Deca Durabolin 101: All About Nandrolone Decanoate

[Disclaimer: John Doe Bodybuilding is not advising anyone use Nandrolone Decanoate/Deca Durabolin under any circumstances UNLESS it is under a doctor’s strict supervision.]

Hypothetically, I love Deca Durabolin. I just fucking love it!

Why do I love Deca so much vs other steroids?

Well, for starters Deca (Nandrolone Decanoate) is affordable and it’s rarely faked.

Deca Durabolin is also highly effective and it’s been around for several decades now. It was the biggest staple of old school bodybuilders, next to Dianabol pills, and guys who used it and dieted hard just looked fantastic!

The nitrogen retention on Deca is awesome and muscles get a really good and full look on it, not to mention it has incredible therapeutic benefits when it comes to joints and alleviating pain.

Deca is just fucking awesome.

It can be shot just once a week and it bangs hard even at a very low dosage.

Unlike a lot of steroids that need to be used at 4-500 mg/week+ to get maximum effectiveness, Deca is one that works great with as little as 1 cc/week (200 mg) and for therapeutic purposes even 1/2 cc per week does the trick, ESPECIALLY alongside hormone replacement therapy!!

Deca can be ran a long time at a mild or lower dosage, and this makes it very suitable for users who are on testosterone year round for life. Deca can also be ran for shorter cycles of 8 weeks and help promote major strength and size gains.

It’s just a great all around compound that can be a good addition to any cycle! If someone wanted to do a very effective cycle and didn’t have a lot of money then Deca is one I’d seriously look into using.

Deca Durabolin fact vs Deca Durabolin fiction:

Fiction: Using Deca will destroy my sex drive and give me “Deca dick”.
Fact: using TOO MUCH Deca will do this, and running it solo without Testosterone may make this happen easier.

Fiction: Testosterone needs to be ran higher than Deca.
Fact: Testosterone does not need to be ran higher than Deca, but enough needs to be there to counteract possible sides of “Deca dick” (I find 200 mg/week of test to be fine for running with 300 mg/week Deca).

Fiction: Deca needs to be ran for very long cycles to see any benefits from it.
Fact: Deca can be used for shorter cycles of 8-10 weeks with great results!

Fiction: Deca will cause Deca dick right away.
Fact: Even if you get this side effect, it usually won’t happen until about 6-7 weeks into your cycle.

Fiction: 2-300 mg/week of Deca is a small dosage.
Fact: 300 mg – 400 mg/week of Deca is the most anyone should ever need and going beyond that is a system of diminishing returns. Great gains can be made on 200-300 mg/week!

Fiction: Deca will make you retain a ton of water.
Fact: With a good diet and moderate dosage it won’t make you bloated, it’s still 90% diet! Most bodybuilders back in the 1970’s used Deca up until about 14 days out from a competition before dropping it and took no anti-estrogens during cycles. The late Sergio Oliva used solely Deca/Dbol as a contest prep staple and was a top bodybuilder!

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Deca is a great all around compound – it works for strength and promoting muscle retention while dieting as well.

It’s one of the most underrated steroids in existence today(yet one of the most common) but certainly underrated!

It’s detectable in a drug test for up to 1.5 years, so not a good one to use for the guys who get tested for performance enhancers, but for anyone else you should be good to go. Most places don’t pay for a steroid test so no worries. It’s primarily competitive athletes that need to be concerned.

I’d highly recommend Deca and for you guys on TRT.

Deca is a great addition at just 100 – 200 mg/wk for long a duration of up to 20 – 26 weeks.

Next we get into the cousin of Deca, NPP (Nandrolone Phenylpropinoate) NPP is pretty much what test prop is to Testosterone Enanthate; it’s a shorter version of nandrolone that packs quite a punch at just 200 mg/week. It can be shot twice/wk but most commonly done in 3 shots per week (I however just do 2 shots/week myself).

NPP packs a little more punch mg for mg since the short chain ester doesn’t get broken down as much before getting to muscle cells. So I’d say 200 mg/week is more equivalent to something like 275 mg/week of regular Nandrolone (Deca). Deca and/or NPP stacks very well with testosterone and also Winstrol.

While on Deca or NPP you may find that the joint dryness from Winstrol is not as bad or not even noticeable at all! I have used Nandrolones over and over again, my body just responds to them incredibly well and I feel very good and healthy when using nandrolone. It’s one of my go-to compounds in many stacks.

Deca vs Equipoise

Deca is probably most similar to  Equipoise (EQ), but I think the strength gains on Deca are better than those of EQ.

1 vial of Deca will usually do what 2-3 vials of EQ will do in terms of gains and strength, so definitely a good compound to have when trying to keep a cycle affordable.

The best post cycle therapy for a Deca cycle

PCT on Deca should be similar to PCT on a testosterone cycle, however while usingDeca it’s a good idea to use Arimadex or Aromasyn since they act better at controlling progesterone conversion than Nolvadex is, and Deca is one that is more of a progesterone deal than anything else.

Using low to moderate doses should not be an issue though even with no aromatase inhibitors, but it’s better to be safe than sorry. I would use 1/2 mg of Arimadex daily while running Deca, or 10 mg of Aromasyn daily. When it comes to Arimadex or Aromasyn I could honestly take one or the other.

After your last shot of Deca you should wait 2 weeks before using Clomid. I would suggest Clomid at 50 mg/day for 3 weeks unless the cycle was a heavier one, and in that case I would use 100 mg/day of Clomid for the first 5-10 days or so, then drop to 50 mg/day for the remaining week and a half.

Continue using Arimadex or Aromasyn throughout your 2 wk wait before starting Clomid, and continue with it while on Clomid and personally speaking, I would go a week past your Clomid with it.

HCG is also a nice addition to PCT. You can use it throughout your cycle but once it’s mixed with bacteriostatic water it only has a shelf life of about 30 days, therefore it’s just easier to take more of it during PCT and use it for 2 weeks.

I would always use HCG at 1250 iu x 2 shots/wk (2,500/week) for 2 weeks. I have found that a big bang of HCG does more to stimulate my nuts than a smaller amount. HCG in itself can cause gyno so definitely make sure you’re using an AI alongside it.

For those who wish to use HCG throughout the cycle then 250 iu x 2 shots/wk should suffice, and you can pre-load insulin pins and stick them in the freezer to prolong shelf life of the HCG. I do believe this would make it lose a little potency but not 100% on that. I feel like it would though.

Remember, PCT is sort of an individual thing and some people recover faster than others. Yes, there are common protocols with post cycle therapy, but you will find that a lot of this is really individual specific. I get a ton of questions on PCT so I thought to elaborate a little here.

Is Deca safe for a first cycle?

I would use testosterone only for my first cycle, and then I’d stack something like Test/Deca for my second cycle.

Most people cannot go wrong with Deca or NPP and I personally feel like they are a couple totally awesome performance enhancers, and so underrated!

Where to buy Deca Durabolin?

You’ll have to see your family doctor to prescribe you Deca Durabolin as part of your hormone replacement therapy.

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[Disclaimer: John Doe Bodybuilding is not advising anyone use Nandrolone Decanoate/Deca Durabolin under any circumstances UNLESS it is under a doctor’s strict supervision.]

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147 thoughts on “Deca Durabolin 101: All About Nandrolone Decanoate”

  1. Great info John, thanks. So while using Winstrol a small amount of Deca with should help with joint pain? I’ve been looking for something to help with joint pain from Winny.

    Reply
    • look into using either Joyful joints by Vital labs or pick up some osteo biflex from CVS or Walmart. That will help, both work well. I’d lighten workloads while on winny as well, kick reps higher

      Reply
    • True or false?

      Deca and NPP are hair friendly IF AND ONLY IF you ARE NOT on Finasteride or Dutasteride.

      If you are on those then it will literally devastate your hairline without mercy.

      Reply
      • I’ve never had issues with deca and hair loss myself. I have never used those products before for hair loss

        Reply
        • Thank you.

          I’ve used Finasteride for 30 years and it’s saved my hair.

          There’s a lot of conflicting opinions on the Web regarding Deca /NPP/Finasteride and hair loss.

          Thanks again

          Reply
          • The compounds that are harsh on my hair are primo, masteron , winny. Masteron being the worst one. But I just never noticed anything on nandrolone but then again I don’t use as high a dose as some do

  2. Was looking to do Test E 250/wk and Deca 200/wk for total of 10 weeks. Are those doses OK?? Reason being, it would simplify it for me just having 1 vial of each….Will get more if you recommend otherwise.(I see in your Deca article you list 200/wk Test, 300/wk Deca). Just want to be sure.

    I will be using an AI & HCG as well as clomid. Should nolvadex also be used in conjunction with these?

    I’m 6’3, 210lbs, low BF%, & 28 years old. This will be my third cycle.

    1st cycle – test E 250/10wks.

    2nd cycle -test E 200 & Eq 400/wk for 10 wks( Had planned longer cycle, but this seemed to make my joints feel dry-ish, if that makes sense, so I discontinued use).

    Hopefully I didn’t make this question too long, just tried to provide you with some quick details you may need to better answer my question. Thank you!

    Reply
  3. John,

    I’m in the middle of an Osta cycle & came down with a bad case of gout in my ankle. Nothing to do with the Osta, I’ve dealt with this issue for years. I probably should go to the doc, but I really don’t want the wife finding out about my physique helper. Do you know if they draw blood to check for gout, will Ostarine become a topic of our discussion? Thanks for sharing all of your expertise.
    Sincerely,
    a big fan in Oregon

    Reply
    • They aren’t going to even pull a hormone panel unless you tell them to, I wouldn’t worry about that at all. Even if they did, your test levels may come in higher while on it, but nothing over 1500ng/dl which is the red flag on a hormone panel nowadays

      Reply
    • You don’t NEED caber with deca unless you’re taking more than necessary. Yea, some guys are just being stupid and using way too much, then I’m sure they’d need something more aggressive like caber to combat progesterone. But I personally have never needed it and all I can do is speak from my experiences, just my opinion on it
      I

      Reply
    • difficult to say, so many factors involved such as genetic capabilities, first time cycling or not, etc etc. But I would think it’d give you an additional 5-10lbs

      Reply
  4. John plz help me.

    I have used testosterone/, trenbolone / boldenon in the past.(4-5 cycle under belt)

    5ft 9 @ 82 kg with abs

    This cycle I wanted to try Deca so I bought pharma grade deca(100 mg) and pharma grade sus250( both available here OTC).

    About 4 week in cycle I noticed that my sex drive was reducing a bit but I didnot give it much thought and continued.

    The in 6 th week I could have sex only 2 times in 20 hour period whereas when I cycled previously without Deca I could sex all day long.

    I still completed 9 weeks of Deca as the results were great but now in 9 th week my libido is practically non existent.

    Yesterday I could not. Even get erection at a party with a girl.

    I m scared shitless.

    Earlier pics of breasts used to give me massive hardons now nothing… Even girls trying to suck my cock does nothing.

    I am on TRT by the way so test is always in system.

    Kindly help plz.

    I read up and hVe bought Caber 0.25 polls. Proviron. Ginseng. Zma cause I m really scared shitless.

    plz help

    Reply
  5. Cycle was–

    375 mg sus
    350 Deca
    Androl__50 / day

    Last shot of Deca was on 9 th of this month.

    Still on 375 sustanon

    Reply
  6. Hi sir.

    Got my blood levels results–

    E2—-67.5pg/ ml. Normal men level given is 0-39.8 pg/ml— mine is very high this

    Prolactin–2.93 ng/ ml Normal men range given is 2.1-18 ng/ ml this is ok

    Progesterone–8.83 ng/ ml Normal men range is 0.2-1.4 ng/ ml—- very high in my case

    Testosterone–1200/

    Kindly help

    Reply
    • look into cabergoline, I’d dose it at 1/2mg 2x a week, it’s very strong and should help bring that progesterone back down into normal range. It only needs to be taken 1-2x/wk as it has a long acting half life, your levels are pretty elevated though so I’d use 1/2mg twice a week

      Reply
      • Thanks sir

        Okay I bought cabergoline.

        I wanted to ask if caber alone will be enough at 1/2 mg twice a week or should I also use a AI to control estrogen levels also.

        Reply
  7. Hey John,
    Is there any way to test “Deca” for legitimacy prior to injection?
    That is of course if you have a prescription for it.
    Thanks,
    Frank

    Reply
    • there are test kits now that you can order to test for legitimacy. I think you usually need a black light and there is a certain color to look for to show legitimacy after you add in the solution to the oil. I would google search the test kits, I’ve personally never used one

      Reply
  8. Currently cruising on 125mg test and 100mg deca a week…feeling great. Getting bloods done in 2 weeks to confirm everything ok. Will be my go to cruise if all results are within range

    Reply
  9. Hey john, so I only take low dosage cycles and rest some time in between them. I’m currently started taking deca and test which is my favorite of all time mix. I have an athletic lean body so it shows good on me. Case is I am prone to gynocomastia, should I run clomid or arimidex or which type of AI while running this low dose; deca 100mg (pharmaceutical) and test sustanon 350mg once every 10 days… I’m thinking of switching to cyp or enanthate. Would that be safe?

    Thanks

    Reply
    • sustanon should be injected at least twice a week provide stable blood levels, the propionate in sustanon will be out of your system by the time you inject again. 100mg of Deca every 10 days is about just enough for the joint healing properties but I wouldn’t expect anything dramatic from it. The chances of gyno are a lot more from your sustanon than 100mg a week of deca. All you need is a minimal amount of arimadex or you could use Red-PCT during cycle. 1/2mg twice/wk adex or 1 capsule a day of Red-PCT will work. I’ve found the arimistane in Red-PCT to be just as effective as arimadex, my bloodwork shows that it keeps my estro in check so I know it’s good

      Reply
  10. Hey John. Thanks for the article. 30 years old, currently on doctor prescribed TRT doing 100 mg/week. Last year I did your one steroid cycle on t (before I saught out trt) and it was amazing. Thank you for the advice on that.

    I’d like to add Deca and do a blast while on TRT. Would you recommend 300-400mg alongside with my 100 mg/week T for 8-12 weeks as a good starting point? Goal is to put on some real size/mass. Since I will remain on trt I don’t need to do a pct, correct?

    Thank you.

    Reply
  11. Currently coming to end of my test deca cycle
    Test 500 a week and deca 300 a week.
    What what be best pct for this cycle

    Reply
  12. Hi John,

    Great information and very informative! Thank you! I have a question, I’ve been on TRT for a few years now, I started with the weekly shots and now I’m on (testosterone pellets mixed with Anastrozole) 90/10 split. Insertions are usually done every 4-5 months.

    I do this because I’m on the road a lot. If I combined a 1x a week 200/mg shot of Deca could I expect to see any gains from this combo? My clinic also offers HCG.

    Would love to know your thoughts.

    Thank you,

    JP

    Reply
    • yes, out of almost any steroid DECA is the most powerful on a mg to mg basis next to trenbolone. But I no longer use tren, deca is one of my go-to compounds thats rarely faked and highly effective. And yes, 200mg a week is a decent dose for results thats not abusing it.

      Reply
    • its hard to make this generalization for everybody. I don’t think it’s dangerous but I stay in the labs on a regular and see the bloods.Some ppl can get elevated BP from deca or anything else long term, some do not. Get bloods, and as long as things look good I don’t see the harm in it -JD

      Reply
      • Good day John,
        If I take 100/150 Deca/Test every 7-10 days for 8 weeks do you think I will require much Back end attention as in PCT?
        I am a 48yr old on no TRT. I do have some oral Testosterone Prop. 100mg/capsule I could use as PCT. Just worried about PCT.

        Reply
  13. I’m wondering if 100/100 test/deca would be “too low”? I have a little over half a vial of each. I figure if 1 cc a week lasts 8 wks with a full 10ml vial then I could get 8 weeks out of a half vial at 0.5 cc a week. I’d rather put them to use with a small dose cycle than waste them.

    Reply
    • you’d get very little out of it, I’d wait until I had more and do a real cycle with another 100-200mg/wk of each, just me though

      Reply
  14. Hi John, first of all thank you so much for the valuable info i started bodybuilding at the age of 35 i want to know is it compulsory to take deca with testosterone roid? And how much dose should i have to take for my first cycle?
    Looking for your favourable reply ahead.

    Reply
    • I would use testosterone with it to combat the possibility of libido loss and a dead dick. 200-300mg/wk of deca and 200/wk test, I personally can get away with using deca 100-200mg/wk higher than test and I’m fine, but 200mg/wk of test would be a good dose to use with deca as a first timer -JD

      Reply
  15. I have been using Sustanon 250, at 1cc a week for last 30 days, and just
    Started taking Deca as well. I took the
    Ist shot of Deca about 6 days ago, and feeling nothing yet. I am concerned because I bought the deca from a guy who makes it himself. I know his sustanon is real, cause I have had some strength/size gains already. How long will it take to see real results of the deca?

    Reply
    • I hope you’re injecting sustanon more than once/wk since there is propionate in the blend, you need to be injecting deca 2-3x per week. DEca results? You should start feeling some strength and gains within the first 3 weeks, deca takes awhile to kick in.

      Reply
  16. I’m about to run my first deca cycle and was wondering if you would recommend front loading it like EQ. I’m planning on running a 12 week cycle with 600mg/week of Test. Phenylpropianate, 300mg/week of Deca, and 50mg/day of Anavar for the first 6 weeks.

    Reply
    • No, I would not frontload deca. It’s a much stronger compound in lower dosages compared to EQ and 300mg per week is a good dosage for Deca. Just my opinion

      Reply
  17. Hi there, thank you for the valuable info you have posted! I am on TRT test cyp 200mg/ml one injection a week forever. I get this legit from my Doc and bloodwork. If I add oral Dbol or Deca durabolin cycle not thru the Doc but stay on Test cyp, do I still have to take clomid after end of cycle?

    Reply
      • Thank you for info Sir! It really means a lot! =-) I’m on TRT 200 test cyp thru Doc and bloodwork for life and love it! Would it be better to Blast and Cruise, so I would buy Test cyp 200 added to my TRT 200 dose for 12 weeks then go back to cruise for 12 weeks cruise on TRT 200? So Test only Blast and Cruise. 400test for 12 weeks then 200test for 12 weeks. So this over and over again which is fine. Or Should I try to get my Doc to prescribe Deca Durabolin 100mg/ml for 12 weeks plus my TRT 200 test cyp for joint pain. I have arthritis bad, How long can Deca be run before side effects? Thanks, J

        Reply
  18. Hey John,

    Awesome Article – Questions/Advice….

    Im 34, 6’0, 212lbs, 8%BF – on TRT for life, i’m dosing 200mg/wk on test Prop and low dosage of HCG weekly. I have access to NPP and Deca and just about anything else.

    Coming back from an AC joint injury 6 months ago.

    Started dosing the NPP 2x WK about 3 weeks ago. Should I keep the NPP and add deca, switch it to deca, or stay with NPP if im looking to add some lean gains before the summer (also let me know if you’d add anything else or switch).

    Thanks

    Reply
    • it’s really the same compound, it doesn’t matter. I have seen blends with NPP and long ester nandrolone combined, but this combination just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me since nadro is nandro. I guess it’s a time released deal such as sustanon is with test, but once you’re a solid month in what does it matter? The biggest difference to me between NPP and regular deca is potency to mg’s administered and ability to take effect faster and leave faster. a propionate ester will get more absorbed than a long chain, so if you take a 200mg shot you’re getting more total nandro than a 200mg shot of regular deca. NPP is the shiznit!!

      Reply
  19. I am on TRT at 200 MGs of Test Cypionate every two weeks. What dose of Deca would you recommend that I take? And should I take it every week or every other week along with my Test injection?

    Reply
    • you can take it once a week or once every 2 weeks. TRUE STORY..many golden era bodybuilders used to get 1cc of deca every 2 weeks and gained from it!

      I say to stay at the 200-300mg/mark and don’t go higher, but as an add-on along TRT yuou could even do 100mg/wk for the joint healing properties of deca -JD

      Reply
          • Brother John Doe,
            You are AWESOME!!! Thank you for all of your advice and knowledge. I am a 50 year old male, 6’1″ 180#, 18 cycles in my decade of pro sport, two decades off and now on TRT 2x wk 1/2 cc 200 mg test cyp, 2x wk 500 mg hcg, along with 1mg 3x wk anastrozole/arimidex for the last 4 years… It took a year to find the right balance and my labs have been in sync for the last 3 years.
            Last year my workouts have become more and more painful due to my degenerative disc disease from C3,4,5 spinal fusion so my Dr just added 125 mg nandrolone 1x week to my therapy.
            Any advice? Do I need to increase my arimidex or hcg… or anythig else to keep me balanced, or is this going to be a wait and learn and see period. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

          • I would not adjust any AI or HCG unless bloodwork shows a need for it. 125mg a week though I don’t think is enough to skew anything and the joint/soft tissue properties should certainly help!

            And the deca is script so u know it’s real! Thanks for reading man -JD

  20. Brother JD,

    I lent a gym friend some $$$ and he repaid me with 200 10mg Oxandrolone and 200 10mg Stanozolol. Any suggestions on what amount or which or both that I could safely add to my current HRT and any other words of what to add, cautions or your general fucking hella mad WISDOM.
    My current therapy is:
    2x wk 1/2 cc 200 mg test cyp, 2x wk 500 mg hcg, along with 1mg 3x wk anastrozole/arimidex for the last 4 years, plus the 125 mg 1xwk deca from my Dr. (I’m 50, 6’1, 180#)

    Thanks for everything you do for all of us. You are a ROCK STAR BROTHER!!!

    Timmy

    Reply
    • AND… I love my BBB lifestyle, (Babes, Beer and Blow) been living it for 3 decades. Does one have to stick with just the babes for that cycle and pct? or does it not matter at at reasonable amount?
      Thanks,
      Timmy

      Reply
    • I’d use 4 pills of each per day (split up throughout the day) until it’s gone. That is 40mg/day of each x 50 days, keep the diet really tight and drink plenty of water -JD

      Reply
  21. John

    Quick question please, I’m 44 years old and I’m on a TRT dose of 180g Test E. I’m approaching the end of my Test/Tren/Winny cycle and will be returning to my TRT dose. I have a few vials of a Test E/NPP mix, which is 200mg/150mg of Test-NPP per ml.. Do you think running 0.8ml a week split up into two doses, which would equal to 160mg/120mg NPP of Test-NPP for TRT would be okay? Or even 0.9ml a week?

    Thanks so much for your advice!

    Reply
    • Yea, that would be a decent side/cruise to TRT. You would at least be getting the therapeutic benefits of the nandrolone and nandro can be run a long time. One of my favorite compounds

      Reply
  22. Hi John,

    I’m glad I found your site, you offer a ton of valuable info here.

    Question…I’m planning my first cycle. I am currently on TRT at 160/mg a week divided in two doses.

    I recently got labs done. Total test is 1286, Free is 20.8, and E is 37.6.

    I would like to add 200mg/week of Deca. At my current Test dose, do you think this is a good cycle to start? Would you recommend increasing Test or adding an ai?

    I don’t have any crazy expectations for this cycle like 40 lbs or anything.

    My goal is to get some relatively lean gains While limiting side effects like Deca dick.

    I also have Caber on hand if it would be beneficial to take a low dose.

    Reply
    • caber on 200mg/wk of deca isn’t necessary at all, don’t even mess with it. 200mg/wk of deca is a decent dose, deca bangs really good mg for mg at much lower dosages than most other compounds. I think it’s fine to run with your TRT @ 160mg/wk of test. Everyone says you need to run it exactly neck and neck with test or test higher but this can be person specific and I personally think this is overexaggerated. Sounds good, keep it the way you have it planned. Thanks for the follow-JD

      Reply
  23. Hi John,

    Thanks so much for the great content you put out. Your site has helped me a LOT on my fitness transformation journey.

    I have a question..

    I’m currently about 6 weeks in on a 160mg test/200mg Deca cycle. My nutrition is pretty dialed in, and so far I’m seeing some nice gains with minimal bloating.

    I’ve been pinning the Deca once a week – 200mg/1ml but I split my Test injections and go 80mg/2x week. Would there by any benefit for me to split the Deca as well and just pin 100mg/2x week?

    Reply
  24. I just got my Dr. to up my dose of trt to 400mg a week of test cyp and had him add 200mg a week deca, hcg at 100 units split twice a week and anastrozole. I blasted twice and really don’t want to do that anymore, for health, and legality. My trt is 20 weeks at this then a 4 week cleanse of clomid and hcg at same dose. I will also add that I take twice a week b complex injections and GAC/LIV amino injections. My question is, with this, do you think I will ever need to blast again, or should I see good gains every time I start my next 6 month trt routine without diminishing effects?

    Reply
    • I’m not understanding the question here. “Every time I start my next 6 month TRT routine”? At 400mg a week you’re not on TRT, its a prolonged cycle in itself. Most guys don’t need to ever go over 200mg/wk test on TRT. A 4 week cleanse? Not understanding the purpose of clomid while on TRT, mot a direction I would go anyways. HCG yea, clomid no. At 400mg/wk of pharm grade test your levels aren’t going to drop lower than normal levels of testosterone in 4 weeks. The half life of about 10-12 days is the time it would take for half the drug to be out of the system, so at 400mg/wk I’m guessing your levels would be someplace in the neighborhood of 3,000-3,500ng/dl. That means in 4 weeks you’ll probably still be hovering around 700-1,000ng, hardly low test clinically and an exogeneous means at that. So this is why I simply do not see this being a “cleanse”, just sounds nice that’s all. This is why I see no point in the clomid. HCG is enough to keep testicular size up without blasting your body with more female hormones and causing a storm of hormonal bullshit. Just my opinion -JD

      Reply
      • I understand. And really don’t agree with “cleanse” as well. I wanted him to up my prescription to the 400mg a week, which he and I are on the page that the 400 is there if needed. My program is set up on 20 weeks on 6 weeks off 20 on 6 off etc. My question, to clarify is, with what is available to me, can I continually make good gains without blasting with underground gear? I know there are a lot of guys out there that think that after every cycle you need to increase dosages to still get gains. Can I stick with this protocol without ever having to up dosages or add compounds, and still make good gains?

        Reply
        • And thanks for the advice and if you can answer my clarification. I only use the anti-estrogens as needed and I’m not big on clomid either, just what they give during my off time with hcg. I’m just really wanting to know if the gains will come each cycle without upping my dose or adding compounds. Sorry for the extra post, I’ve just done a ton of research and there is so much bull out there, but I finally found someone’s advice that I can respect. Please understand and your advice is taken in high regard. Thank you

          Reply
  25. Great info John! Does all of the above also apply to NPP in terms of doseage? I’m interested in running 200mg/week. Since NPP is a short ester, how many times should it be injected weekly?

    Reply
    • Mon/wed/Fri is a good inject pattern with NPP. I’ve gotten away with twice a week before but ebery other day or at least mon/wed/Fri is probably best for most ppl

      Reply
  26. Hi John,

    I’m currently on the following cycle:

    160mg/wk Test Cyp
    200 mg/NPP
    500mg/Primo
    210mg/Anavar

    I’m approximately 6 weeks in. For the first month, strength gains improved nicely, I shed body fat like crazy, and my muscles are popping and looking great. However within the last two weeks or so, I’ve noticed strength gains seems to have plateaued, I’m not sleeping as well, and I’m feeling fatigued.

    I had bloodwork done – my total Test is 436 :/ and my E2 is 68 with Total Estrogens in the 300s. I have never run an AI on TRT as labs have shown it unnecessary. However, given these numbers – I’m thinking that between the Test and NPP I am aromatizing, tanking my T levels and raising my Estrogen levels..

    I’m thinking about starting Anastrozole at .5 mg/day. Am I on the right track here, or am I missing something else? Should I be thinking about Caber also?

    Thanks so much.

    Reply
    • Woah, yea 300’s is high as fuck! I would either have to question if estrogen wasn’t high as hell b4 the cycle or if one of those compounds is not what it’s supposed to be. Those compounds should not be elevating your estrogen like that. You sure you have anavar and not dianabol? If it was myself I would go 1mg adex daily for 10 days in a row, then dropping back to 1mg eod for next 10 days, then .5mg eod from that point until next lab. All I can suggest without knowing more, have no idea what your prolactin is and cannot tell you whether caber is needed or not

      Reply
  27. Thanks so much for the feedback John.

    Yeah man, I”m pretty certain the Anavar is legit. I actually get it from a pharmacy through my TRT doc.

    Just to clarify – my E2 was 68, and Total Estrogens were 368. But as per LabCorp the reference range for Total Estrogens is 40 – 114, so 368 is still insanely high.

    When I’m just running TRT, I do 160 mg/week total pinned twice. This typically keeps my Total Test between 750 – 1000, and my E2 in a normal range – 17 – 27. When I started TRT three years ago, I was on 200mg/week with 1 mg AI EOD. This TANKED my E2 levels, dried out my joints and I felt like garbage. I dropped the AI entirely and reduced the TRT dose to 160 and that typically has me in check.

    Is it possible the T and NPP together are driving my Test levels up and I’m aromatizing at a high rate?

    Reply
    • Not really, because nandrolone aromatizes just tad compared to where test does. It almost sounds like a skewed test result honestly. It’s hard to believe an estrogen level over 300 and you don’t have tits yet. I just cannot answer this accurately. Keep on the adex and retest

      Reply
  28. John, I’ve been running NPP at 200mg/wk alongside TRT of 160/wk. I was planning to run NPP for 10 weeks. But being on TRT, NPP can be run for longer at low(ish) dose of 200mg/wk, correct?

    Reply
  29. Hi John,

    I’m actually running Test C 160mg/w + 500ui HCG/w + 1mg Anastrozol/w

    I would like to introduce 50-100mg of Deca Nandrolone to my TRT.

    Is it safe to do in my TRT to get more lean muscle growth?

    Thanks :)

    Reply
  30. Hi John,

    I’m 45 and was looking to use npp100 once or twice a week to maintain.
    Can I use this Long term or do I need to stick with a cycle?

    Reply
    • You will need to inject NPP 2-3x a week since it’s a shorter half life. For lower dosing to compliment TRT it’s really more convenient to use regular nandrolone once a week at 100-200mg for a duration of 20 wks

      Reply
  31. HI JOHN

    IM 24 YEARS OLD AND I AM GOING TO START MY DECA CYCLE. IVE BEEN CRUISING AND BLASTING ON TEST E AT ABOUT 300MG ON AND OFF FOR ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF NOW, DIDNT KNOW MUCH ABOUT PCT. ALWAYS JUST ASSUMED I CAN GO BACK NO NORMAL WHENEVER I WANT.

    FIRST QUESTION:
    AM I NOW A TRT PATIENT? SEEING THAT IVE USED TEST FOR SO LONG WITHOUT PCT.

    SECOND QUESTION:
    PLANNING ON BLASTING WITH SUSTANON 500MG AND DECA 300MG PER WEEK SPLIT BETWEEN MONDAY AND THURSDAY FOR 12 WEEKS. WILL HCG AND CLOMID PCT HELP AFTER THIS CYCLE OR IS IT TOO LATE FOR ME TO WORRY ABOUT PCT

    Reply
    • You need to come off for awhile and go get labs done. I’m guessing you will need TRT, but if this is a real concern you have then why would you continue on with sustanon and deca for an additional 12 weeks rt now?

      Reply
  32. Hey John, Thank you for all you do. I have been on prescribed trt for years as a result of cycles. 200 mg cyp per week, 25mg clomid daily. Im 43. I recently added deca 200 mg weekly (I had covid and lost 22 lbs) to rebuild mass. I cannot get my hematocrit down. My last labs hemoglobin was 20 and hematocrit 60. That was a week after a phlebotomy. Red Cross wont let me donate. Now my doc wants me off completely. This will surely fk me up, Ive been on trt for 12 years. Any suggestions to help with hematocrit?

    Thank you!

    Reply
    • My advice is to cut TRT down to 100mg a week. You sound as though you need to give more blood soon, but look at ferratin levels first because this may or may not be dangerous in your situation.

      You may need to go to a specialist and be evaluated for polycethemia Vera. I wish I could answer more accurately but this is the best I can answer based on info given

      Reply
    • But totally off test you will wanna die anyways so it doesn’t really matter rt? I myself would never totally stop. Now, if you weren’t donating regularly in the past maybe this is just an initial thing, however if those rbc’s keep rising but iron is staying too low to safely donate then you are going to need to see a specialist on this. Also, one other area to look at is calcium intake, are you doing anything daily that is an abundance of calcium intake? If so then cut it out.

      Reply
  33. Thank you Joe. My iron is higer end of normal. I didnt donate for years. I probably have only donated 5-7 times since starting trt. Prior to trt, I did quite a few cycles. Never donated then either. Also, I forgot to mention, I just completed a sleep study for sleep apnea. I am waiting for the results. Hopefully this is a major factor.

    Do I need to do a specific test for ferratin? It is not on my current lab results.

    Thanks again

    Reply
    • Nope, not to worry, if iron level is high then ferratin level is good, ferratin is a protein that contains iron in the blood. A low ferratin level means low iron, you are fine. My best guess is you just went a long time with very thick blood, you are actually very lucky not to have had a clot or a stroke. Continue to donate, even if another phlebotomy is necessary before being eligible at a donation center.

      Reply
    • If RBC count was high but iron was low I would have been more concerned, but that isn’t the case which is good, you can have more blood taken without being at risk for collapsing

      Reply
  34. Do I absolutely need to take arimidex or anything like that for an 10 week cycle of 200 test and 200 deca a week? This is my first time for any of it and I’m just trying to get a 1 and done boost from it really. I have a pack of Nolvadex and that’s it.

    Reply
  35. Hello John, I’m currently on trt and take 70mg of T cypionate twice a week for a total of 140mg a week. I also take .5ml of HCG twice a week, and .25mg of anastrozole every other day. I got my blood work in last week and everything was in range. I want to know if I can up my dosage from 140mg of T cypionate to 200mg a week for 10-12 weeks, add 200mg a week of deca for 10-12 weeks and continue the HCG and anastrozole, and then continue on my normal trt regimen after those weeks?

    Reply
    • Yea man, that is pretty much the way to do it on trt, you blast with low/moderate dosages and then reevaluate the bloodwork. Time on=time off rule sort of goes out the window and you go by labs to dictate the route you cycle. I’ll tell you that it takes more to fuck a lab than ppl think, because I stay on shit a lot longer than 12 weeks and no red flags with labs

      Reply
  36. Hi John, ive read alot of good information above. I have a question for you ive ran 2 cycles.
    1st 300mg test e a week with climid as pct.. that was it.

    2nd 500mg test e a week with; liquid anastrozole at .025 and sometimes .050 eod and clomid/nolvadex as pct

    On both cycles I ran a high estrogen. I was uneducated and tried getting as much knowledge as I could.
    My current levels are at Test serum 543 ng/ml….Estrogen Total 78 pg/ml… prolactin 12.8 ng/ml.

    Im wanting to run a Deca cycle for my third and final time before I start trt should I change anything about this cycle to help me get maximum gains as well as keep my estrogen low and levels looking and feel good all the way through. Concerned about dosages as well as should I run Decca higher then test e

    Cycle
    1-14 Test E 500mg wk
    1-12 Deca 300mg wk
    1-3 Dbol 10mg 1in morning 1in evening
    1-14 Liquid Anastrozole 1mg eod

    PCT
    clomid 50/50/25/25
    Nova 40/20/20/20
    gw – 50156 20mg day 5weeks
    mk2866 25mg day 5weeks

    Any of your knowledge will help.

    Reply
  37. I’ve been taking sustanon 250 deca 300 and anadrol 50. I take 150mg of deca- 125 mg of sustanon every 3 days and 50mg of anadrol daily.

    How does this look? I only have nolvadex for the pct though, should be ok?

    Reply
  38. Hi John, I’m taking 125mg sustanon weekly trt. I am also on finasteride for mpb 2.5mg daily. I want to add 200mg of Deca for up to 16weeks but from what i have read Deca and finasteride is a no no. Do you know anything about this? As I am on trt and so it would not only be a deca cycle does this change things with regard to finasteride.

    Reply
  39. Thank you for all the great info above, it really does help!

    I am on TRT 250 a week. Test is at 1400 but all my labs are good and within normal range.

    In the past I have done a cycle of Deca at a very low dose doubling up my test and it messed with me pretty bad. Is is dumb to entertain the thought again? Or should I try maybe doubling up my dose of TRT?

    Reply
    • I would opt for NPP instead (fast acting deca) and double up test:deca again, going 600test:300 NPP. If you still have issues then drop nandrolone altogether and don’t use it again

      Reply
  40. Thank you I will look into NPP.
    If I decide to stick with the Deca (not NPP) what dose would you recommend?

    I have HCG and Nolvadex I’m thinking about running throughout the cycle or at least mid cycle and Arimidex if symptoms get worse.

    I didn’t take Caber until later after the cycle m, I figured I’d need it and did.

    The cycle just seemed like a mess and want some input / help.

    Thank you again.

    Reply
    • 300mg/wk max. I would even recommend starting at 200mg per week for half the cycle, and if you tolerate it well then go 300mg a week the other half. Deca is a strong compound, even at 200mg per week you should see decent results

      Reply
  41. Hi Jon
    How about this, instead once a week 200/300 test deca, do twice each compound a week, meaning will do two injections a week. Would this be healthier approach and safer for reducing gyno, perhaps not use AI at all

    Example: Monday 1shot 100 test + 150 deca
    Thursday 1 shot test + 150 deca

    No AI as smaller amount of compound for safer and healthier cycle

    Reply
    • Sure. But everyone is different, what level of test works for you may not work for your friend. Some.need to go neck and neck test:deca, some 100mg over deca on test, some can go a 2:1 deca and test. You won’t really know until you use it and get to know how your body responds

      Reply
  42. Hi Jon
    I do have a question and hope you don’t mind me asking. I have terrible knees, also suffering from arthritis and doing knee rehab due to knee surgery last November. Sadly I also gave up tobacco so I have been adding some pounds since I can’t exercise properly and the cravings. To speed up the rehab I have been thinking of adding some deca into it. Not to gain any mass or so, just some strength preferably around my knee and some salvation for my poor joints.

    I have been thinking of shooting 50-100mg per week for hopefully around 10 weeks. This is solely for rehab purposes and I don’t want to add any testo or anything into it. Do you think Im on to something here? Id like to get back to more cardio so I can lose some pounds but as for now I can more or less just walk. Will I also need a pct cycle? I haven’t used any gear either for the last 20 years I should add and Im not into BB or anything, just some indorhockey and paddle.

    Cheers
    /T

    Reply
    • I think we a solo is going to have you feeling like garbage. I would use test with it, the 19-nor compounds compete with the dht receptors and you can really feel like crap without test in there

      Reply
      • Thanx for the reply Jon,

        I thought I could do such a small dosage without “issues” but if adding testo, what testo and what dosage? Like said this I am not looking for mass here or getting any bigger, just want stronger muscles around my knees, a rehab cycle. Don’t want to juice more than I have to.

        Best

        Reply
  43. Hi John,
    Loving all of your books, and your advice.
    Have completed 2 cycles with your help;
    1) Test E 400mg p/w (200mg Mon & Fri) 12 weeks
    Dbol 30mg p/day
    2) Test E 720mg p/w (360mg Mon & Fri) 14 weeks (pyramid dose)
    Gains were good, no real E2 issues even though I’m a tad overweight using 1/2mg adex e3d on both cycles.
    I now cruise @ 150mg test E as I hated PCT. It gave me acne and made me miserable.
    Now considering
    Test E 400mg p/w (200mg Mon & Fri)
    Deca 200mg p/w
    1/2mg adex eod
    What’s your thoughts ?
    Do I need to have caber around ?
    Is it worth switching the adex to exemestane ?
    Any benefit in splitting the Deca dose ?

    Many Thanks as always
    G

    Reply
    • No noticeable benefit splitting the deca up as it’s a long ester. (Only reason for some to split it would be injection schedule/volume in syringe based on other compounds in the mix)

      Most ppl wouldn’t need caber at all using just 200/wk deca, only the rare few extremely sensitive to prolactin would need to do this, 90% of guys would not need to concern themselves with something like caber on 200/wk deca. As for adex vs. Exemastaine, not a big deal which one as both are highly effective

      Reply
  44. Hi JD, thanks for all of this great information. I appreciate it a lot!! I am 38, 6’3, 240 pounds. My goals are to lose bodyfat, gain strength and muscle. I will be running a Test, Deca and proviron cycle.
    Weeks 1-12=Test E 200 and Deca 200
    Weeks 7-14=Proviron 50mg/day
    AI=Aromasin 12.5mg EOD
    PCT Weeks 15-17=Clomid 50mg, Nolvadex 40mg, Aromasin 12.5mg ED

    What is your opinion on this cycle with Proviron added to it, the use of Aromasin and my pct? I just want to make sure I am doing things right with the least amount of sides. Thanks!

    Reply
    • Looks solid to me. Remember, in a perfect world you always want to use HCG as part of your recovery, but for a low dosed cycle as you’ve mentioned it’s not a dealbrealer if you don’t have it, but it would be better of you did

      Reply
  45. Hey John,
    I’m on trt at 100mg test cyp a week. I’m just coming off a small surgery that kept me out of the gym for around 2 months. I’m ready to get back after it and lean out for summer. I have a bottle of deca 250mg/ml. I’m debating on adding 125mg per week for 20 weeks or 250mg a week for 10 weeks. I’m 38 and have been on trt for a long time and prefer lower dose runs but I wasn’t sure if 125mg a week would be enough. I’m not looking to add much size… just get back to a better physique.
    What are your thoughts?

    Reply
    • Just be careful the deca sides don’t creep up from not having your test high enough alongside it. It’s very individual specific, some need test neck and neck with deca and others can get away with running deca 100-200mg a week higher than test. I would raise test 100mg a week if you are going to do that. Anything 200-300mg per week deca is fine for results

      Reply
  46. I’m taking 200 mg of test through trt a week. Can I take 200 mg of deca per week for a good stack? I’m 50 6.1 200lbs. Trying to add size.

    Reply
  47. Hi,

    thanks for the great support.
    I am 57 years old and on Trt 140 md per week . EOD I take arimidex 1/4 pill.

    I like to take a small dose of deca for 10 to 12 weeks.

    Which dose you prefer ?
    Shall I increase my test for the time of my cycle.?

    And,
    In inject the test Cypionat supqu. Us this also possible with Deca ?

    Thanks for your answer

    Reply
    • I like 200-300/wk deca, increasing test neck and neck to deca will probably make u feel better than a larger offset. I’m not a fan of sub-q injects with oil myself, not sure. I hear abt guys doing it with TRT but honestly not sure on deca, I mean I don’t see much of a difference unless it’s dirty gear

      Reply
  48. hey John how long before you start seeing strength gains and bulking gains on Deca durabolin with a Thousand mg of test and 300 mg of deca should I be taking more I’ve Anadrol which didn’t do nothing and I’ve cycled Trenbolone several times which did a ridiculous amount I just need to know how much Deca take to work and how long before I start seeing results because some steroids don’t do anything to me and I don’t want to waste money using them if the results aren’t going to come

    Reply
  49. Hey I’m about to start my 5th cycle after my labs come back (almost positive everything is normal) I normally have only done test, I did sust once and a cycle of test deca but did a low dose and didn’t see much results. but I’m looking at doing a 12 week cycle of test/deca kind of wanted to do 500 test and 200 deca
    Week 1-12 test cyp 500mg injected every Monday
    Week 1-10 DECA 200 mg injected every Monday. Just trying to get your opinion on this cycle. I have 1mg arimidex on hand and I’ll have Clomid and HCG for PCT. is this to much? Should I do less?

    Reply
  50. Hey, I’m on trt 200 a week I want to add 200 mg Deca a week. Will the Deca raise my testosterone. Don’t think my trt doctor will continue treatment if my levels are high.
    Thanks

    Reply
  51. Hey John,
    I’m on 1 cc of nandrolone right now with 2.5 Iu’s of hgh and 50mg’s of t3 per day. Am I missing anything? Anything I should add to help get back to normal levels when I get off the nandrolone.
    Btw, I Feel strong as fuck!

    Reply
  52. Hi John! Great forum! How would you do your PCT if you are on TRT for life 100mg/week. Been adding deca 200mgs a week for 8 weeks and when it’s time to come off how should I do so?

    Reply
  53. Hey JD,
    I’m about to start my third cycle. First two were Test only and did not run anything alongside consistently such as AI. I had horrible cystic acne with both. I’m thinking of starting a cycle of Test at 300-400mg/week and Deca 250mg/week. Should I take finasteride to combat DHT for acne issues? I’m also planning to run anastrozole .5mg EOD. Thoughts?
    Thank you so much for your expertise!

    Reply

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