What I want to talk about in this post is a 20 week plan to build some new muscle.
This is for the guy who has cycled steroids numerous times, has been in the gym for several years, and is not what I’d consider “new to the game”.
This is for an experienced bodybuilder who wants to take his level of development to the next level.
[Disclaimer: John Doe Bodybuilding is not advising anyone use ANY illegal or possibly dangerous hormones or substances under any circumstances UNLESS it is under a doctor’s strict supervision.]
The first thing you need to understand is that this shit gets expensive, and if you can find a cost effective way to grow then by all means do it!
One of the more cost effective ways I’ve found was to run IGF-1 with HGH. It allows you to keep your HGH a little lower and still gives you a nice bang, and it’s faster than just HGH alone. I also find that I don’t get the extreme side effects from going higher on the HGH, I can stay right at 2 iu’s a day of HGH and feel good, and run the IGF-1 at 80 mcg on the days I lift.
The insulin gives the peptides a real 1-2 punch, and you will be using that 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off, 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off, 4 weeks on. Unless you’re like me and you’re diabetic, then you just stay on insulin, LOL. The HGH will be ran at 2 iu’s/day, 5 days on and 2 days off. The IGF-1 will be used 4 weeks on, 4 off, 4 weeks on, 4 off, and last 4 weeks on again.
So what you will need for this 20 week cycle is 2 kits of HGH, 3 vials of IGF-1, and some fast acting insulin such as Humalog or Nolvalog. If you don’t have access to Humalog or Nolvalog then Humulin-R is fine, and Humulin-R can be purchased over the counter without a prescription in most places. You DON’T NEED INSULIN for this, as just HGH and IGF-1 will also work exceptionally well.
As for steroids, I would just stick with a couple basic compounds in moderate dosages. Something along the lines of test/deca OR test/EQ will be fine. You will run a 20 week cycle of that along with your peptides.
I run my HGH 5 days on/2 days off, and I take my IGF-1 just on training days. I take my insulin every day because I have to, but you should only take it on training days if you’re not insulin dependent like myself.
Now, pay close attention here. The way to really benefit from insulin and achieve maximum volume in the muscles is to take your insulin BEFORE you work out. Now you need to do this EXACTLY the way I’m telling you here, no exceptions. You want to take your insulin exactly 1 hour before you train. I would start at 5 iu’s, and never go over 10 iu’s.
Protein and carb intake on insulin
After you take your insulin you need to consume around 40-60 grams of protein and 10 grams of carbs for every unit of insulin you use. So if you shot 5 iu’s of insulin, then something like a chicken breast or a protein shake along with a few packets of instant oatmeal.
For my carbs I don’t go 100% sugar, but I try to have something that is a little more sugar based, and instant oats is a perfect meal choice for me. I find that the slower digested carbs mixed in with the sugar helps keep me a little more stable as the insulin peaks. Yes, sugar is initially what you want, but when the insulin peaks you do want some slower digesting carbs as well.
Insulin can actually peak twice after you take it. After you eat your protein/carb meal you will start training 1 hour after. Now, here is the key; during your training you want to be sipping on something else with sugar in it. I will drink a Gatorade during my lift, sipping it between sets. In a normal setting 10 iu’s of sugar per unit of insulin is fine, but training is actually going to create more of a caloric/glucose deficit so consuming some sugars during your lift is crucial.
You are going to find that your pump in the gym is insane, mush more intense than normal. My arms feel like they are going to burst when I do this and I pump up to a degree where my body actually looks noticeably larger.
Your workout should be kept around an hour or so when doing this protocol. After you train you will consume another meal consisting of 40-60 grams of protein and another 60-80 grams of carbs.
If you’re VERY EXPERIENCED like myself then a post workout shot of insulin will work fine as well, but be cautious of insulin “stacking.” Stacking is when you think you’re taking a certain amount of insulin and it’s really more because the previous shot of insulin is still kicking. So post workout if you take 10 iu’s of insulin it may be more like 14 iu’s if that first shot prior to the lift is still lowering your glucose.
Usually when I finish training I go eat at this place called Chipotle Grill, and I get a chicken or steak bowl with rice, corn, salsa, and lettuce. I get a lemonade to drink with it. It’s a perfect combo of protein, carbs and sugars with little fat.
You want to stay away from fat pre and post workout and just consume protein and carbs. Fat is much more easily stored while using insulin and I’m going to tell you why. When you take insulin your blood sugar gets dramatically lower very fast.
Where do you think the sugar goes when it’s lowered through insulin use? Exactly, what doesn’t get absorbed by the muscle gets stored as fat. Fat will not get absorbed by your muscles, so it will go directly to fat storage. I’d wait until the insulin window is over with before consuming any fats, even health fats.
Post workout is also when you want to shoot your IGF-1. IGF-1 should be measured out in a 1 ml insulin syringe and you want to fill 2 of them. You will inject your IGF-1 into lagging muscle groups that you want to bring up. It’s a good idea to inject into muscles just trained also.
Units of Measurement
Now, there is something I want you to be very aware of here. The units of measurement for IGF-1 and insulin are different than that of HGH. With HGH you actually fill your pin to the numbers. 2 iu’s is going to be the 20 mark on the pin, 4 iu’s is the 40 mark, etc.
Now, with insulin and IGF-1, a unit is actually a “click” on the pin, or a line. So if you filled your 1 ml insulin syringe to the 20 like you would for 2 iu’s of HGH, you seriously fucked up, and I hope you don’t die. Insulin can kill you quickly.
Make sure you know your shit before fucking around with it. Research everything you can, and just know that it’s not worth it unless you’re very educated and experienced. It doesn’t have to be dangerous if you know your shit, but if you do it without knowing anything you may go to sleep and never wake up again.
This also brings me to my next point; don’t use insulin at night.
Do it so you know it’s clear from your system before you go to sleep that evening. With Humalog or Nolvalog it’s about a 3 hour window after you inject. With Humulin R- it’s going to be more like a 5 hour window.
I would take my HGH in the morning at 2 iu’s. Anymore than 2 iu’s-4iu’s/day and I’d split the shots up and inject 2 or 3 times a day. Your body is only going to handle so much at one time and I don’t think you’re getting the full advantage of growth by taking an assload all at one time.
Now, for myself 2 iu’s of legit HGH/day does me fine. Especially when using it along with IGF-1. I mainly want the anti aging and fat burning properties from the HGH, IGF-1 should give me the growing part of the equation.
But HGH is costly, I simply cannot commit to running higher dosages, and the side effects get bad when you get higher with it. I get very tired from it, and the numb hands gets old. It will constantly make your hands fall asleep and it gets annoying.
I’m pretty sure the issues of permanent carpal tunnel syndrome is real when HGH is used too high for too long. Not to mention the other side effects like acramology, foot growth, and intestinal growth just don’t sound exciting to me. So for me personally, I keep my HGH at 2 iu’s/day.
As for steroids, I don’t use much at all. I keep my testosterone at 200mg/week and if I’m running deca or equipoise with it then those are no more than 400mg/week most of the time. Actually, 300/week is my limit on deca, and eq is taken at 400mg/week. I will use something a little more moderate to run for 20 weeks alongside the peptides.
I wouldn’t be doing that with Winstrol or Trenbolone. Another compound I may consider going 20 weeks on would be Masteron, provided body fat was low enough to start with. Masteron is pretty useless if you’re not in single digit body fat, but Masteron is mild enough to use for 20 weeks. Now, I can go 20 weeks at a time because I’m on testosterone replacement, so fear of shutdown is just not an issue with me. For a guy who still cycles on/off, you may want to consider a bridge here.
This is how a 20 week HGH/IGF-1/Insulin blast would look with a bridge:
Weeks 1-8: 200mg/week Test, 400mg/week EQ, (first 4 weeks with IGF-1 and insulin, then 4 weeks off IGF-1 and insulin)
Weeks 9-12: 150mg/week Test only, 1250 iu HCG/wk times 4 weeks (4 more weeks on IGF-1 and insulin)
Weeks 13-20: 200mg/week Test, 300mg/week Deca (4 weeks off IGF-1 and insulin, then last 4 weeks on again)
Weeks 21-24: 50mg/day Clomid, 10-20mg/day Nolvadex, 1250 iu/week HCG for recovery.
So basically there you have it, the 20 week HGH/IGF-1/Insulin blast. This is a little more advanced, but not everything I write is for beginners.
152 thoughts on “The 20 Week HGH/IGF-1/Insulin Blast”
Christ, this freaks me out. I’m looking to start anabolics in 5+ years time or so (I WILL HAVE FRANK ZANE’S PHYSIQUE!) but the idea of insulin just terrifies me. I’m interested to know what the results of a blast like this would be.
Frank Zane was about 175 lbs, you dont need any HGH or insulin
Hello sir i am having ulcer colitis can i use ur 20 week cycle please reply
I’m not a doctor but I’ve known someone in your situation who healed himself with HGH. That’s all I can provide
In these 20 weeks, what type of results, muscle gain and fat loss wise would someone expect, John?
Keeping in mind that this would be for more of a seasoned guy, it probably wouldn’t be a quick 20 lbs in 8 wks. But over the course of 20 wks I would say even a very experienced bodybuilder could pack on 20 lbs of quality size, and recomp everything to a serious degree
Hey John Doe – killer article as always.
Personally, insulin scares the f*ck out of me, and I always like to thoroughly weigh the risks of something before taking the plunge. Since you always give the straightest answers possible, I thought I’d ask the following question: a while back, you published a post about finding out that you’re diabetic and you mention it again here – do you know if this is due to acquired insulin resistance from bodybuilding related use, or some other factor. If it’s non-bodybuilding related, no further detail required.
The reason that I ask is that I’m already on TRT for life, and I want to weight the pros (getting huge) against the cons (developing insulin tolerance) before taking things to the next level and possibly having to deal with more long term consequences.
At the time I assumed it was from long term anabolic use and TRT, but I don’t think so anymore. I’m not the type of diabetic who is fat and got that way from eating junk, I’m what you call a type 1.5 which is a classification that exerts properties in type 1 and type 2 diabetics. Its an auto immune disease that can never manifest itself ever, or one day spring up from some type of trigger. Non anabolic steroids lead to insulin resistance but I’ve found no clear evidence on anabolics leading to this. You also have to take into consideration the large amounts of food bodybuilders eat over and over again for years on end. U suppose the pancreas can get worn out. But there are plenty of big guys out there who don’t have insulin issues. My issue is not sensitivity to insulin, its production. I get by with very low amounts of insulin and if I’m dieting I can almost stop using everything. I honestly don’t let it stop me at all, its just become part of what I do like hrt is. The downfall is the amount of food you can eat, the more you eat the more insulin you need, period. But I can manage to stay a lean 220-230 lbs at 5’9″ on little food. It’s damn near impossible for me to get lower than 210 lbs, I’ve walked around this size for so long. Fortunately I built my size before the glucose issues. But it doesn’t stop me at all, I still have everyone telling me I’m big and ripped as hell all the time. Testosterone, hit me….glucose issues? Fuck it, have that covered now too!!! LOL
Thanks man – on point as expected. Love that way you handle setbacks/obstacles – I’m taking note, for sure.
hey John i have always wanted to talk with a type 1 diabetic about training, diet, drugs etc like the new peptides example glp-1, igf-1. i know hgh makes blood sugars rise. talking to doctors is one thing but they have no clue on peptides and RC. any light on the topic would be great. or email any links? great article above
I’d recommend a consultation on this, see options under train with John Doe, thank you- JD
Sir is there any risk too use insulin with hgh and if there any risk then what precortion we have too take sir for that
Sir is there any risk too use insulin with hgh and if there any risk then what precortion we have too take sir for that
sure, there are lots of risks. Hypoglycemia and dropping dead, organ growth, and fat gain. You need to make sure you know what you’re doing with insulin before ever starting it, and always be around some sort of carbs in case you start feeling sweaty, shaky, sleepy, nauscious. It’s a good idea to get a glucometer also, this way you can check your blood sugar and know EXACTLY what it is. These are over the counter now in places like Wal-mart, as well as the test strips the machine uses.
I have only started insulin this week. I took 4ius first day after workout and 5 hours later was feeling weird as hell. I have backed it down to 2ius after workout and still feeling a little funny. Is this normal? Does it take time to get use to?
BTW it is insulinR with 5ius of hgh ed and 700mg sust w/800mg primo/week. I take in 90 grams carbs and 40 grams protein right after. 90 minutes later I take in another 60 grams carbs and 40 grams protein. 3-4 hours ( at lunch ) after injection I take in 60 grams carbs and 50 grams protein. I have taken everything other than the insulin for 2 months with no problems other than sore hands. Where am I going wrong?
Are u splitting your HGH shots up? The only thing I can think of is you’re going hypo anyways from HGH, which does have a tendency to lower your blood sugar at times. The insulin shouldn’t be doing anything because you are eating more than enough carbs and your timing is great. I cannot answer this question, I’m clueless on this one and I dNodon’t get stumped easily
Yes I take 3ius HGH at awakening ( 5AM ) and another 2ius around 2-3PM. I thought I was going to be able to take much more insulin. I don’t start feeing weird until about 1-2PM ( 5-6 ) hours after injection. My lunch is straight veggies and protein. Do I need to start eating cheeseburgers?
I don’t know how long you’ve been using HGH for, but it has been my experience that you need to eat a little more loosely when using HGH or you can feel off. This is not the insulin, at only 2 iu and 5/hrs later there is no fucking way its that
Been using the HGH for a couple of months with no odd feelings at all. I can say that I have started a fat burner this week. Maybe that’s the prob.
Sir what was the best time too take insulin per workout or post workout sir and what was the minimum dose we have too take that work sir
Sir what was the best time too take insulin per workout or post workout sir and what was the minimum dose we have too take that work sir
When we got the reply sir
Do you know if Riptropin HGH is still being manufactured?
yes it is, and out of all of the HGH out there it’s ranking one of the highest in the serum tests rt now, it’s good
How do rips compare to Kefei? Thanks for all your help!
keffei blue tops? LOL ,no comparison….Rips all the way!!
Sir what was the best time too take insulin per workout or post workout sir and what was the minimum dose we have too take that work sir I mean insulin work at minimum short
5iu immediately post workout is a good starting point. No reason to EVER use more than 10iu, and make sure you have your knowledge of carb intake/sugar intake down
I am starting to get this thing down. I am now taking 5ius and feeling good!
yes Sir, when done properly you should feel fantastic on insulin. You will feel big and powerful and have fuller muscles. Just keep everything in check!!!
What’s your opinion on Hgyetropin and Jintropin? BTW after reading your stuff I am taking your advice. I was pumping 700mg/wk of Sust and 800mg/wk of Primo. I have backed it down to 350 of Sust and 400 of Primo while on all this other stuff. Hooping to add those additional lines you were talking about. Thanks Bro.
I’d go with the remanufactured Jins over the hyges, if you can find them. I haven’t used HGH in awhile now, but I correspond with a lot of guys who use it and they tell me whats what, and what is ranking the highest on the serum tests. Riptropins are where it’s at right now as far as affordable generics go
So, would you agree with lowering these dosages w/AAS or kicking that shit back up?
What do you think of peptides I hear a lot about them what would the best whey to put them with my 20 wk GH slim IGF1 and ASS …..? I would like your opinion on the matter thanks John Doe
so many new ones out there, many are just called something different,but do the same shit. The only thing I’ve used other than IGF-1 was MGF, CJC-1295, and GHRP-2. IGF-1= Good, MGF- not impressed, CJC-1295= very good, GHRP-2= Too much bloat on me, next time just using more CJC-1295, 3,000mcg/wk instead of 2,000.
John, do you use IGF1 LR3 or DES? I don’t intend to use slin but onlyHGH in the morning and IGF1, can I take IGF1 around one hour before working out?
John, do you use IGF1 LR3 or DES? I don’t intend to use slin but onlyHGH in the morning and IGF1, can I take IGF1 around one hour before working out?
Thanks for the article. You have changed my view on how to use AAS etc. I am not ready for insulin but… I have some questions I hope you may answer:
1. What sort of results could I expect using HGH and igf 1 without any AAS as prescribed in your article?
2. Say I add 200-250 mg test and 300-400 mg deca (I am working on your principal of keeping everything low dose) how would that affect results and can I run the AAS for the 20 weeks?
3. Would I need to add ancillaries like aromasin/nolvadex/hcg. If so what protocol should I use for these ancillaries in combination with the AAS above?
Without using AAS you wouldn’t get much at all. Both of those peptides on their own are weak. You would get a little of the fat loss and anti-aging properties of the HGH, and maybe a tab bit of growth from the IGF-1, but that is a very expensive way to get some half assed gains without AAS. I would definitely use at least testosterone at 500mg/wk. HGH loves test, so I’d probably kick it up to 500mg/wk if you’re using growth. The deca at 300mg/wk is fine, and yes I’d use both for 20 wks. As for ancillary compounds, I’d just use 1/2mg /day of arimadex. Arimadex is going to be a good choice here, because deca is a progesterone and a-dex is much better for that than something like nolvadex. If you can get some HCG then I would go 250iu 2x/wk on that (so 500iu/wk total)
Hey I have some humatrope 5 mg is this eny good
yes, humatrope is top notch
Thanks for the feedback. Easy to understand and follow.
Any thought on combining LGD4033+MK-677 or (Ghrp+Ghrh combo) + insulin. I have used testoviron +Peptides combo + insulin with great results.Looking for a mass/bulk cycle without the negatives of steroids/anabolics.
I’m sorry, I’m just not familiar with those peptides other than ghrp and insulin. So many new ones out there, the ones I’ve used are IGF-1, GHRP-2, CJC-1295, MGF, HGH, and insulin.
hey joe i am diabetic too type 1 got 10 % 78 kg 1,79 , if i do pre-post workout that trick with insulin along without hgh will it make any gains ( i inject ,eat oats+protein after 1 hour lifting+drink some sugar during lifting+eat after lifting)? also how many injectiions per day you take? on no working out days do you consume carbs ? or only fats too i would liketo know when i eat only fats on non lifting days (2 per week max) i lose some bodyfat. also how i do it, i eat carbs after 2 hours i check my blood sugar then eat some animal nitro amino acids before and after and i eat one more meal 1 hour after training. do you think i need to change something to get more benefits?
What you should change is to add a little simpler carbs pre-workout if you’re using insulin 1 hr pre-training. As for days not in the gym, I do consume SOME carbs, but in small enough amounts it doesn’t generate a need for more insulin. Usually 30-40 grams is not enough to cause a huge rise in blood sugar if you follow that meal with solely protein and fats. For example, lets say meal 1 is 4 eggs, an apple, and a little cottage cheese…..meal 2 may be 8 oz of meat and 2-3 tablespoons of coconut oil, then back to a small amount of carbs with meal 3, maybe a small sweet potato and protein shake. The number of injections of insulin per day varies depending on #1- how many days into a lower carb approach I am, and #2- the type and amount of carbs I’ve consumed. Many days I can go with no injections per day at all.
thanks alot a big problem is since i start lifting daily, and consuming more calories(which are fats), i consume200 carbs my insulin is getting lower and lower i need 7 units now for 110 carbs, 2 months ago i needed 11 units for 110 carbs , hmm strange think, today i waked up with 54 blood sugar, i think ineed to lower my long acting one hope i dont lose muscle when i hae low bloodsugar for too long
its actually the opposite, you’ll lose muscle when your blood sugar is higher. Yes, lower the long acting insulin and see where you’re at
exactly however i heard that if you blood sugar stays low 5-6 hours in the 50s rangeyou body gets amino acids and fats (survival mechanism) also i pee so much liquid when my blood sugar i low, so i know that my blood sugar is low from that thing too, also i cant get an erection XD
I’m so fucking scared of insulin and there’s so much to process on it. Can this be done without insulin? Will it still be effective? If not what are the basics I’ll need to know to keep me alive and help stay my paranoia?
yes, it can be done without insulin, you can do anything you want, this is just my protocal on things
Hey John, I’m interested in this protocol. I’ve never done igf-1, but have done my fair share of hgh. I lost my Serostim source and have been reduced to Hyges, but I’ve digressed. You mention filling 2 insulin syringes of igf-1. I’m looking to get 1ml vials. Is this correct? Sounds like a lot, 2 full syringes. Also, I’m on a strict paleo aip diet. I can eat all kinds of fruit but my complex carbs are limited because of no grains. I’m pretty limited to sweet potatos and butternut squash. So do you thing a combination of a sweet potato and banana or something like that would work for the carbs. I could maybe do an apple during the workout as I don’t do Gatorade.
No, I DO NOT RECOMMEND filling 2 syringes full of igf-1. When I said “fill 2 syringes” I meant loading 2 seperate syringes to the desired dosage mark so you could shoot your muscles bilaterally after you train. As in, a shot to each delt, or each bicep, etc etc. 1 full 1ml insulin syringe is an entire bottle worth of IGF-1!!!! You will be filling to about 4-5 clicks on each syringe, that looks like nothing in the needle hardly!!! Please do not use this unless you fully understand the protocol
I definitely wouldn’t take anything without researching it in multiple sources. But I was confused why 2 syringes. Now I get it. I’m not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I would have figured out that 3 vials wouldn’t last 20 weeks after filling the 2 syringes, you also mentioned that igf is measured like slin which is a line, so I knew something was up. Anyway, I enjoy reading your articles. I know you dabble in Paleo, Is it working out for you? I’m finally looking the way I want after years of missing the mark after going Paleo. I can’t have a late night bowl of cereal lol. I could never dial in the diet, I always bailed because of my fear of losing muscle. I’ve been on Paleo for 3 months and I definately lost a little muscle but I look way better with my shirt off. Before I looked great with a shirt on, but it was a disappointment when it came off. So stick with the diet is my advice. I think I’m going to try this in the winter. Thanks John for the good reads!
Thanks for the info!
So for the post workout igf1 shots, is it ok to pre load syringes before leaving for gym?
They would be out of refrigeration for a couple hours.
that said, does igf1 need refrigerated like hgh?
and how long does it last in a 100mcg vial after mixing with 0.6% Acetic Acid?
thank you very much!
another question, sorry.
I have some humulin R, but not enough.
I also have some humulin N.
Is humulin N usable/acceptable as well?
or better yet, where would someone be able to get novolog or Humalog?
just read elsewhere that you first dissolve igf1 lr3 powder with 0.6% Acetic Acid, THEN mix with BC water before injection.
Is this correct? or do you dilute and inject 0.6% Acetic Acid?
ie 100mcg igf1 lr3 vial gets one cc 0.6% Acetic Acid? then inject?
or some amount of 0.6% Acetic Acid in 1cc/100mcg igf1 lr3 vial then the rest BC water and inject?
sorry, very non specific instructions on mixing all over.
The acetic acid/bacterio water debate has been around awhile now, I’ve used both myself. But I think bacteriostatic water is better, the Acetic acid solution burns more and left a couple welts on my muscles that didn’t go down for awhile.
Humulin-N is not ideal, it is a slow onset with an 8 hr peak, and 16 hr duration. This totally defeats the purpose of using insulin post workout to flush nutrients, because it’s not going to be effective or peak in time. This insluin is much more dangerous than something you know will be in and out of you quickly. I advise against medium acting insulins such as this, either fast acting or a 24 hr slin w/ no peak, but not this one.
Yes, you can bring preloaded pins to the gym and it’s ok to be out of refrigeration for a couple hrs. Yes, it needs to be refrigerated, and shelf life? I would give it 1 month shelf life based on mixing with bacteriostatic water, and much longer if mixed with acetic acid. The problem with acetic acid is it can damage muscle tissue. The AA is used for storage, and some guys further dilute it down with BW when time to inject. I just think this is too involved and nit picky, and since IGF-1 is perfect to run in 4 wk blocks (as 1/ 1,000mcg vial gets you right at 1 month) then just bacterio water would be all good with me.
thank you very much for the information.
I am all set then.
I will use BC water I have plenty (and I will toss the AA I ordered)
I found Humulin R so I am set on that.
1 last question please
what type of “muscle (new cells?) weight” gain might I expect from this 7 week/50 day cycle?
– I am going to go conservative on my first go of igf1-lr3/hgh/insulin
– I am just finishing up 2 month cruise
– I will be following your test/HCG protocol for entire cycle
– 1iu day HGH (my normal dose for past couple years- seen huge long term results)
– 5iu insulin pre workout with your food/carb intake instructions (no post WO insulin)
– 50mcg post WO (25+25) in barely lagging body parts
thanks again for spending your time to share your knowledge
It’s all about food intake and protein, but I’d say you could pick up a decent 15 lbs or so
IGF-1 vs IGF-1 LR3
is the cycle dosage the same?
or do you recommend less LR3?
I was planning 50mcg LR3 a day as a conservative igf-1 first/trial (50 day) cycle.
Go with LR3 my friend, it stays active much longer. IGF-1 without the added LR is basically a waste to me
And yes, 50mcg/day is spot on
10 days in, GREAT results! 5lbs gained, leaner more striated, pumped, AWESOME RE COMP.
BUT……… at 10 days diarrhea started in. Non stop for 2 days?!?! I stopped the 10u of slin pre workout for 1 day and its gone 24hrs later. Is there an adjustment I can do somewhere in the program to avoid this?
That isn’t from the insulin, it’s either from the HGH or IGF-1. It’s common at first onset of levels peaking higher. I’d ignore it and keep going
LOL, I was just going to reply that I spoke too soon and it was back, even with skipping slin yesterday.
The hgh I have been on for years at this dose so don’t think its that.
So its likely from the igf-1 and should go away when my body adjusts to higher levels of igf-1 correct?
I just cant take this as an ongoing side, LOL
It should subside once your body gets used to it. It’s fucking diarrhea man, it’s not like you’re growing horns on your head or anything
LOL, its bad. I wont get graphic. I don’t want to sound like a pussy either. If its subsides great. and has seemed to slow down/getter better. Looks like you are correct and its an adjustment period. But I am POSITIVE that NOBODY would be tolerate it as bad as it was for any extended period of time, lol.. thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
Aside from the abating diahreha igf-1 is AMAZING.
I seriously thought I was loosing weight looking so much leaner and harder.
I could not believe I actually gained 7lbs in 12 days.
hahaha, you think shitting on HGH or IGF-1 is bad? Wait until you read about my pgcl experience in the new book coming out LOL
great article/comments. I just purchased some LR3 and I will throw it in with my growth/test cycle (along with everything else :)
my question unless I missed something, how much bac water per ig bottle? I keep reading different things about bac/aa and dosage amount. also heard after you pull your desired mcgs, fill the needle with additional bac water
lol, im confused.
it’s suggested to backfill the needle with additional water when the IGF-1 is constituted with Acidic acid, it further dilutes it so it does’t hurt when you inject it. The acidic acid is supposed to prolong the shelf life of IGF-1, honestly I don’t think it makes a fucking difference and acidic acid can cause muscle damage and inflammation. I’d just use Bacterio water and be sure I killed the 1,000mcg vial within a month
sounds good. I start today
Hi and thanks for a wicked read.
Couple of questions if you don’t mind….?
I don’t wanna kill myself so with the igf I add 2ml of the water solution? Then how do I measure 80mcg if it’s a 1mg bottle? How many injections will I get from this?
Also what pin is it I use? Is it the smal slim pins about 1/2inch and go into the muscle (eg bicep) with that? Not the bloody great blue normal pins used for the Decca/Test etc?
Also does the HGH go into the Sub-C?
Does the insulin go into the Sub-C?
Does the igf go into the Muscle (IM)?
I’m planning on doing:
5iu HGH per day 1injection in the am,
100mcg igf-1 per training day (50mcg into each muscle eg biceps or tri’s or each peck) straight after training,
And 5units of slin an hour before workout 1injection per day.
Is this ok? Or do I need to split injections?
If so and I do decide to up my slin would I do all at once still or split?
Good day sir John doe,
I am planning to use IGF1 together with primobolan masteron and anavar.
I red in your article about using insulin. My friend also told me to use it so i ask my wife who’s a NURSE to get me one.I have now HUMILIN R but Im afraid to use it. Is it same effect with IGF1 if I don’t use HGH and INSULIN? And is possible also to use stanozol/winstrol?
My concern basically is to focus on decreasing body fat and the belly area.
I hope u can help me on this matter.
insulin isn’t going to make getting cut any easier, I would keep it low and only post workout. No more than 5 iu’s
what if i just use igf and insulin with mk677 or just igf and slin
Insulin 4 iu pre workout
With 50 mcg of igf-1 lr3
It’s my first time
I’ve just used anabolics and ghrp6 and igf-1 lr3 earlier
yea you could do that and get some decent results -JD
I’m about to start an insulin cycle and I plan on running 10 ius post workout 4 days on 3 off for 6 weeks. My question is, is it possible to gain a significant amount of muscle in that amount of time with insulin only?
Hey john! long time follower, love your view one bodybuilding! and just read your book Becoming the bull, great read man! i’m from denmark, so sorry for my grama.
just about to come of a 20 week test/eq run, right now im brighten into pct with test p for 3 weeks. EQ has really been a treat, my new favorite i think :D After the 3 weeks i will run a pct with nolva/clomid.
my question is: im on hgh 4 iu a day and i am planing to spicy it up with some insulin. how would your protocol look? For a first time slin user, using it under pct?
hey and by the way, nice to see some activity on your instargram ;)
My stats 182cm 87kg <12% bf
I would like to start you 20week protocol, since now i have only done 4 weeks on 4 weeks off cycles with nice results. But i have an issue. I have already used slin like you wrote in this article (IM, before workout) at 10ui but on the next day my pressure goes sky high and also my ankles will swell…..
I really don't know what to do in this case…. he only thing solved this issue was taking an Eridrex every day for a couple of days and water retenction goes away with the swell on ankles.
Should i use less slin? Whats wrong in me? :(
P.S. I have bought both your books and they are wonderful!
water retention from insulin usage is very possible, but what makes me concerned is that it’s more common with actual diabetic people. The water retention happens because the body starts storing excessive water to deal with high sugar levels, since the water helps dilute the sugar in the blood. You may be going overkill on carb intake during your insulin use, and also because you’re only doing 4 week bouts of it, it may be taking time for your body to adjust to it. My advice; go get baseline glucose tested in the morning fasted and not using insulin
Hello, i just spent the morning reading all these posts. Amazing read ! And thanks for taking the time to reply to all these questions – so hands on !
I got all my answers from the other posts – so i just got 2 !
1. HGH, which i normally use, is taken away from carbs (thus away from slin). Is IGF-1 different ? I see you recommend using it PWO, even given your carbed high from the 1 hour pre-workout slin jab.
2. Ill try the rips based on your advice (normally im hyges, i got a 60 GH score after a 10iu jab one hour before a blood test so I always trusted the hyges)… your giving advice on what HGH, but i cant find anywhere about where to get somewhat trusted IGF-1. Whats your thoughts on that please ?
Awesome site, awesome read and thank you so much again.
pretty tough to find good igf-1 lately, and I personally haven’t used it in a good while so I honestly wouldn’t know right now
Thanks for the great cycle info John. This thread is great it answered many of my questions already.
I still have two questions, one, as a first time insulin user can one still get results with just five IU and staying at that amount through the cycle?
Can I ask The reasoning behind the four weeks on for weeks off? If I have enough IGF-Lr3 for 20 weeks can I use it the whole time?
Lastly for us guys who train late afternoon around 6 or 7 and sleep at 10 or 11 is this a concern with the insulin use?
Thanks in advance for your answers!
yes, 5iu is fine
4 wks on and 4 wks off is #1- so you don’t get used to something and throw off your normal function, no I wouldnt use IGF-1 for 20 wks straight through
With a rapid insulin such as nolvalog or humalog then it shouldn’t be a concern, it’ll be out of you by the time you go to bed. With Humulin-R it would be best to use it pre-workout and track carbs for the next few hrs until you go to sleep.
Despite what people say, low blood sugar usually results in a bodies fight or flight mode and it wakes you up in the middle of the night if it’s an issue
Hi john I’m wanting to try igf, I train late and have read some people inject before bed do you see and problem with this or hypoglycaemia?
yea,I would not inject before bed on it, it does lower blood sugar after most people take it, I’d go post workout or pre-workout and if going pre-workout then I’d take some simple carbs an hour before gym and drink a Gatorade during the workout or something along those lines
Thanks man, how do you like igf? Compared to hgh for fat loss and well being?
its pretty good, most of my experience with it was between cycles as a bridge. Good pumps and a good way to bridge cycles
I know its older post. But I found it, and Im very happy because of that, since I couldnt find this kinda info anywhere. My question is, can I use Igf 1 (no long lasting), as a bridge, since Im not on steroids any more, I just finished my diet, and had a competition a few weeks ago. Im 230lbs, 5’9, bf under 7% for now. Ive never used Igf, or insulin, nor hgh. Hgh is too expensive for me, and I dont like messing with insulin. Hope you will answer.
yes, IGF-1 is a good bridge between cycles
octey BOSS i talked to you before had 2 heart attacks caused by doctors blaa blaa i bought the insulin meter but not being a diabetic like yourself, What numbers am i looking for and when do you check it for bodybuilding. John the pump stays for hours look totally different could be the HGH but then look like you shrink till you workout again …gained 42lbs sincenovember got abs yea!! but do you FEEL THE SLIN DOING 6IUS BEFORE BREAKFAST AND 6PREWORKOUT SOMETIMES 4ius post depending on how i feel… john if you could help me with the meter amount and when i would really appreciate it brother im 50 but train like a crazy bastard no talking and NO PHONES if you train with me thank you sir`
your looking for normal sugar levels that fall between 80-100. On HGH it’s not uncommon to run around 150 most of the time, but this usually goes away after discontinuing it. If you’re not a diabetic, any number under 70 is a red flag and you need to consume some carbs. Also, this isn’t one of those deals where you eat and check your sugar 2 seconds later, you want to give it about an hour after your first few initial insulin shots, from that point you could go about 2 hrs post meal. What you’re looking for are blood sugar ranges somewhere around 80-100 2 hours post insulin shot/ food. It’s ok if the numbers are off a little, but you don’t want them too much under 80 and over 120, Hope this helps
Glad to see you share value knowledge with the people around the globe.
I am 5’11 and weight 198lbs, and have taken atleast 5 -6 or may be more anabolic cycles (Test/ Tren/ Anadrol)
My question to you is, that almost 4 months ago I stacked the above anabolic steroid cycle with HGH for a period of 2 months, to my surprise by the end of the two months my hands, face and feet swole up, just like a diabetic patient, and this got me worried. I have run simple anabolic cycle before without HGH and this never had happened to me. I got all my health checks done and everything is fine now.
I am sure I was doing something wrong
Here is the cycle that I had ran :
Test ent/ Tren Ace- 1ml each Tuesday and Fridays
Anadrol – 2 caps/ ED twice daily
HGH – 4 Iu / ED
Blood Sugar Insulin – 3 IU / ED (Immediately after HGH shot)
I use to take HGH 4 I.u/ ED on my shoulder muscle early morning, and following which Immediately use to take the Insulin 3 I.u shot below the belly button and then hit my gym and after 2 months I found my self in a situation where in my face, nose, hands, feet swole up like hell.
Was I doing something different ? If yes, what was that
Also I want to start with a good muscle building cycle ( Muscle Mass + get Big in Size) which has a combination HGH with Anabolic roids or something better you can suggest …..Is there something you can please please suggest me.
Really Appreciate it
it was the HGH that did that, guarantee it. Especially at the 8 week marker, GH is known to cause water retention when you first begin using it, and 8 weeks is still early into a GH cycle, as most cycles should be around 20 weeks minimum
Great information above!
I’m 35, 5’11” 180lbs.
Goal: lower body fat and lose up to 10lbs. I do not want to gain weight.
I’m planning on doing 30week cycle of GH. Leaning towards 7/days a week of 2iu to 3iu per day every morning, pharm grade, is that preferred over 5 day on 2 off?
I’m not using insulin, but I am considering IG-F after reading your article. Would it make sense based on my goals above? would I do 4 weeks on 4 weeks off (4-5/week) And what if I workout late in the evening? Would u still use IG-F post workout or diff time? I am also considering 10 week cycle of test-e (250mg) starting at week 10 finishing at week 20 (but I don’t want to gain weight…almost tempted to leave it) What pct would you recommend for the test-e and when to start and for how long?
Do I need to do pct or tapering for GH at week 30?
No tapering off HGH, just come off it. Yes, IGF-1 can be used and can help burn additional fat, if working out in evening time then I’d use it either post workout with increased carb intake or take it an hour preworkout with at least 75 grams carbs. IT’s not insulin but it can act like a mild dose of insulin and lower sugar
Thanks for the reply. So I’m on day 10 of 1.5iu omnitrope pharm grade. Nothing else at this time. I take at it 8am. I usually workout in the evening at 8;30 pm. I noticed I’m feeling super tired/sleepy around 4pm. Any suggestions to curb the sleepiness. Maybe different injection time or dose?
switch injections to pre-bedtime, HGH has a tendency to cause lethargy until you get used to it, which may take several weeks. Look at little kids, they sleep more sound and sleep more because of higher levels of GH in their bodies, it’s pretty much the same deal
Taking at pre bed time won’t interfere with my sleep patterns when I get off of it? Or interfere with my natural production, as some people say your body produces the most while sleeping?
it’ll temporarily lower your GH output, the same way test lowers your natural production. HGH isn’t something you want to stay on all of the time unless you’re over 60 years of age
Hi John,, how can I deal with swollen ankles on HGH at about 1 week starting it at 4 i.u. ED early morning?
It’s normal when first using hgh, it’ll subside after the first few weeks
Loving this 20week blast cycle but what are the calorie intake a day for growth on this cycle please
for most guys at least 4-5,000 calories a day
Many thanks and I will be purchasing your books asap 😎
Hi, you talk about injecting igf post workout but wouldn’t this stop our natural mgf levels?
Shouldnt we wait a couple of hours then inject the igf?
So question if I use 10 IU Humalog all I need is 100 grams of carbs total spaced so mayebe 50 gram post workout and 50 gram Intra workout then post if I didn’t want carbs I’d be ok?
Please provide clarification:
Months 1, 3, 5 etc.
Hgh in morning (5 days on 2 off)
Insulin pre workout
Months 2, 4, 6 etc.
Igf R1 post workout
Insulin pre workout
yes, you got it. 4 weeks on HGH rotated with 4 weeks off and IGF-1 instead. Insulin pre-workout with proper carb and protein intake, shuttle nutrients during workout!! Usually 5iu of insulin pre-workout is enough to get the job done, make sure to have a carb drink on hand during lifting just in case you begin feeling hypo. As you go on you’ll become more experienced and familiar with this protocol and you’ll know exactly how your body responds, best luck -JD
I’ve could have swore I’ve read something about you suggesting berberine when taking insulin to help with insulin sensitivity and becoming a diabetic: is this correct or did I see this some place else ?
Berberine is apparently a really good supplement for increasing insulin sensitivity!! I have not tried it yet so u probably read that someplace else. But from everything I’ve heard about it it’s a good addition, especially if using HGH because HGH can raise fasting glucose levels.
Also, the biggest reason I speak on insulin use with HGH is not because I believe that the short bouts of insulin I had used caused diabetes (which I am an insulin dependant diabetic) but it was probably due to a combination of very high stress environments, bad sleep, and continuing to train on top of all of that. A perfect storm that cause my body to become resistant to itself. If one was to avoid insulin and still wanted the benefots of nutrient shuttling then look into metformin as a substitute for insuilin. Metformin or “glucophage” can certainly help shuttle nutrients, get leaner, and burn visceral fat (think of the fat in a steak that runs throughout the lean portions) -JD
Thanks for such a great website with great information !
I have been monitoring my Blood Glucose levels with insulin and without. There doesn’t seem to be much of a difference. (7.5-9.7 mmpl/L).
Is there an optimal blood glucose level that one should aim for (with or without the aid of insulin) ?
Thanks in advance.
All IGF peptides: Using Bacteriostatic water with Insulin-like Growth Factor peptides can degrade and completely deteriorate it in as little as 24 hours due to the concentration of benzyl alcohol. (please advise: It is important to understand, you can not add bacteriostatic water nor sterile waters to your IGF-1 lr3, as it will not only mix with the already present acetic acid, like oil and water. The Benzyl Alcohol will degrade IGF-1 very fast! So unless its being used up in 1-2 days max, you should not add water to it!)
The point is to dilute the acidity to a point that it will no longer cause tissue necrosis (death/damage) or pain upon injection. It is recommended to dilute no less than 4:1 ratio (4 parts BW to 1 part IGF-1/AA)
Im running out of shopping ideas any suggestions
Shopping ideas for what?
Can I please ask you if you use the hgh for the entire cycle?
I’m confused about HGH use…
Should it be 4 weeks on HGH rotated with 4 weeks off and IGF-1 instead
HGH on all the 20 weeks (as I’ll raise test to 500g/week as you recommended on one of your Comments HGH loves test)
Another question should I run Arimadex during cycle.
Any other replacement other than clomid , I can’t get my hands on it .
Big fan , just finished you’re first book and starting straight from under ground .
No, you stay on HGH the entire time
Also I’ll try the back filling technique with insulin syringe , can I just pinch the test everyday at almost 70mg per day(500mg/wk) in deltoid and triceps?
The protocol is the same with both type of slins, humalog or humalin r? The first one is rapid and start in 15 min and peak at 1 hour and the other is fast and start at half an hour and peak at 1-2 hours. So if I use humalog with the protocol it will peak at working out time, and the other at the end of the workout. So with first we need to pay attention at working out time not to go hypo. Is this correct?
You need to consume adequate carbs to accommodate workout time with both insulins. Yes, the onset of the first is quicker, but since energy expenditure is going to go down, the onset of the other could be sped up as well. So normally the protocol is 10 grams of carbs per unit of insulin used, but I will tell you 2 things here , there is never a reason to use more than 5iu if using pre workout and secondly, you may want to start with about 12 grams per iu since you are gonna be working out and burning glycogen
I’ve finished your book straight from the underground and obviously as you stated that CJC is way better than HGH.
So can I use this protocol with CJC instead of the HGH all the 20 weeks period ? And will I pinch it in the morning or before bedtime (I’m more comfortable with the Dac twice a week).
Second question I’ll use the testosterone E 500mg/week,and you dropped it at week 9-12 from 200mg to 150mg , so how much should I lower the dose from week 9 till 12 ?
On another note I won’t use insulin .
HGH is just more commonly faked that’s all. Yea you can substitute the peptide in its place
Thank you for the reply ,
Should I lower the 500mg/week testosterone dosage at week 9-12 while using HCG ?
If you are on TRT then no, if you are not then yes. Lower to around 200 mg per week
Thanks a lot for your awesome article.
You said the fats should be avoided, while the insulin is present to avoid storing fat efficiently. So what is your opinion on somethings like oats, chicken breast, lean steak,….. All these sources have a little bit of fats. Should these foods be replaced by a better choices like white fish, cream of rice, egg whites,…. to completely avoid any trace amount of fats during insulin window?
those choices are perfectly fine, just keep the steak a leaner cut if you eat steak, thanks for following! -JD
Hi very good post
I plan to go to
HGH : 3ui morning before meal 1 and 3ui before bed
Insuline : 5ui pre and post workout
Igf1 lr3 : 80mcg post training
What do you think about that ?
Yea, sounds like a plan. Now execute and grow!! Thanks for following- JD
yes, sounds like a plan. Let me know how much size you gain off that
Hey John great read! Just had a couple of questions. I’m 6’3″ 255lbs 12% bodyfat am cutting down to around 9% fat then I want to start this cycle. Would you recommend eating at maintenance calories or eating in a surplus? I don’t want too add too much fat but def want too add more muscle obviously. Cheers!
I believe in adjusting upwards in gradual increments. So begin at maintenance calories and every couple weeks adjust upwards by about 3-500 calories/day
Ie; wks 1-2 3,000 cals/day, wks 3 and 4 @ 3500/day, wks 5 and 6 @ 4,000/day , etc etc. Keep in mind that your burn rate is going to go up as time goes on with that cycle
Awesome thanks for the help, will give that a crack and see how we get on! Looking forward too it 💪
Experienced/competitive BB. I’ve used IGF-1 previously but not with GH. I have 1ml insulin syringes. 2 questions about IGF-1(r3)…
-how much bacteriostatic water should I put in a 1mg vial?
-how much should I load in the syringe if doing 50 mcg of IGF (25 in each body part)?
Hello sir ,
I want to know that could i run this cycle as i have 2-3 cycles before and due to abcess at injection site i was operated badly. Now i am fine at narural diet but i want grow and compete.
Hi, you have mentioned 3 vials of igf-1.
But what type of igf-1 you used and what was ur dosing.
Pls do reply
As of recent most of the IGF-1 around is fake, if you cannot get incrilex brand then don’t bother with this run. Thanks for reading/following! -JD
Hey bro I took pills of HGH-with IGF-1 way back in the day and it WORKED. My girl just came across your site and I’ve ordered from a few places and got scammed twice. I used to use napsgear but the wait is crazy. Where do I get good hgh w igf-1.
Hi good sir. Really clear and helpfull informations, i’m about to do it but i’ve got one question. About the insulin, you said to take it only on training days, would be more benefic if i’d take it 7 days a week? 15 ius split 3 times a day? 4 weeks on with 4 off? Or i should better stick to the training. Days only
Training days only, let your system normalize some days, it’ll lead to less insulin resistance and/or possible issues -JD
I am on cutting cycle . I use 100mg test mix with 100mg primabolan per week
100mg tren per week.
Hgh 4 IU per day
And the cycle is 12 weeks
Ok….best of luck with your cycle, thanks for following -JD